Ingvar Villido: Freedom Means Awareness of the Creation of the World

An interview with Ingvar Villido in 2000 for the magazine Päikesetuul by Peeter Liiv

Q: The essence of the doctrine that you teach?

A: The nature of man.

Q: What is that?

A: As one who arrived said, “If someone talks about God, I see whether that God is already “alive” in them or have they only heard about it.” That nature can be experienced, continued in living experience, but it is not often what is talked about.

Q: The goal of Lilleoru people is Freedom. Your personal way towards it?

A: In 1982 I met the Teacher. Then my personal dialogue began – questions and answers about life that were often unsatisfactory. I tried to try and experience everything myself and I found experimental answers that reflected reality. That gave me certainty that everything is really the way the Wise ones described it. And I got a chance to bring others to such experience through my own experience.

Q: Which spiritual trainings helped You with that?

A: I have done hundreds of trainings in the past – every one of them has helped.

Q: Is it not so, that a training fits some people more than others?

A: When practicing any training, a person meets their own weaknesses which force them to quit and look for other exercises which would somehow fit their weaknesses. One could keep on looking and not ever find the values which could be reached through practical exercises.

Q: Is there a spontaneous way which requires no certain training?

A: This presumes the ability to stay in the moment, here and now. We could call it a practice, “acting without acting” etc. – in every case it is a conscious way, not living as it happens. There is a difference between spontaneity and spontaneity. The state of the ordinary consciousness differs a lot from the “here and now” state.

Q: Obstacles on the way to freedom? Fear, guilt, anger?

A: Egoism

Q: How does it express itself?

A: Through what you listed and many other ways which usually advance life.

Q: Do you communicate with your students?

A: First of all, I do not consider myself a Teacher. But of relationships, we can consciously or unconsciously use three. First – me and them. It is a way of struggle where everyone tries to fight for their place under the sun in every possible means. Second – me and Him or Creator. Now the person learns from Him – they have combined into Him. Here egoism gets a hit. Third – Me and Me. This is the most complicated one – until a person understands that everything around them is an expression, mirror of themselves. In that kind of relationship, a person’s Self is one with everything. But this is not realized before the two preceding relations have been covered.

Q: Love?

A: Here I agree with Vigala Sass who says that there is no Love. The closer to the Creator, the less emotional Love, the more bright serenity. By intensifying one’s state, a person inevitably moves through Compassion, Bliss and Love and reaches bright Emptiness, the nature of the Consciousness, which in dzogchen doctrine is called rig-pa. But the person could of course stay on the level of Love and everything would be well. That is in every case better than being in blind, shifty and confusing thoughts, feelings and emotions. It has to be mentioned that the Love in view is not sentimental or emotional but Essential – independent and free, tolerant, egoless.

Q: Who do you consider yourself in front of your students – if you are not a Teacher?

A: It is hard to define – it is rather a state which is not specifically meant for anybody but which changes to suit the situation. Perhaps in the state of Love, Bliss, Rage – but these are all selfless. Ego does not belong to that.

Q: Is the way to Freedom endless?

A: The way to Freedom is a specific discipline, through which a person reaches potentialities that are not usually consciously used or expressed. For example, the question about the meaning of life or about what to do to die a specific way. Or not to die at all in the traditional way? Ordinary conceptions are reconsidered, new and flexible conceptions are created that are not only intellectual but can also be experienced. People get a chance to change themselves. For example, in today’s science era, someone has said that the world ends outside our tactile (tactile – perceptible by groping) nerves. Vibrations surround us which – received by our nerves – turn into the image of the world in our brain. I care about what is actually outside the tactile nerves. Freedom means being free of every image of the world. It means being conscious about how we create the world in our mind and sustain it. Constitutive questions get answers and knowledge about how to act.